Agenda item

(A)      The Council received a deputation from John Murray in relation to agenda item 7.2 - Denominational Primary Schools.

Mr Murray thanked the Lord Provost and the Council for agreeing to hear him in relation to such an important matter. He explained that when he spoke at the Education and Children’s Services Committee on 17 September, he made the point that Catholic education in the city could only be successful if it was a joint enterprise based on mutual trust and respect between the Council and the Catholic Church, and he had moved an amendment on that basis in an attempt to work together to plan Catholic education for the benefit of all of the people of Aberdeen.

Mr Murray highlighted his positive experiences as an external member on the Education Committee for the past seven years, and acknowledged the expertise of officers and the great support he had received during that time. He therefore found it surprising and disappointing in terms of how this matter had been handled and responded to. He emphasised that the Partnership had lost the vote at the Education and Children’s Services Committee, and they had lost the argument because the facts in the report did not support the recommendations. He added that all of the external members voted for his amendment - he had not canvassed them before or during the meeting, however the Partnership had failed to persuade them to vote for the motion.

Mr Murray stated that the position of the Catholic Church was that what was in place in Aberdeen in terms of Catholic schools was inadequate, especially compared to what was in place in almost every other part of the country. He stated that Aberdeen was an international city, yet there were limited opportunities for families in terms of Catholic education, particularly with there being no Catholic secondary school, which was impossible to justify. He added that although there were three excellent Catholic primary schools in Aberdeen, this paled into insignificance compared to what was in place in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Dundee, and all three cities had Catholic secondary schools as well.

Mr Murray emphasised the need for mutual co-operation, which was the basis of his amendment - to use the 12-month pause to put people’s heads together to agree an appropriate level of provision and plan accordingly. He argued that a proper consultation needed to be carried out, particularly in terms of the possibility of a Catholic secondary school for Aberdeen, from the whole community. He stated that the figures from the last consultation should not be used as the questions were only put to parents; young people must be consulted too and the views of people from Aberdeenshire had also been excluded. Despite this, Mr Murray highlighted that 82% of respondents said they would put their children to a Catholic secondary school, yet this had been completely rejected which he found remarkable.

Mr Murray concluded that the Council could and should do much better. He noted that there was cynicism in the community, which was only added to with the views of the external members being ignored. Lastly, in response to a point that had been made at the Education and Children’s Services Committee that there was no funding for a Catholic secondary school, he explained that the Catholic Church was not proposing an additional school, however reprovision of the existing secondary school estate should not be ruled out.

The Council asked questions of Mr Murray and thanked him for his deputation.

(B)      The Council next received a deputation from Elizabeth Spencer, also in relation to agenda item 7.2.

Ms Spencer advised that she headed a social enterprise called Aberdeen Ethnic Minority Women’s Group and had been working as a community researcher in Aberdeen for the past two years. She stated that she had started a petition online for the need for a secondary Catholic school as well as for more funding for additional primary Catholic schools in Aberdeen.

Ms Spencer stated that she represented women from across a number of different nationalities and faiths in the city and further afield. She noted that Aberdeen was a beautiful city, there was no sectarianism and people were inclusive, with so many different faiths mixed together. She stated that she had recently taken part in a radio debate on Good Morning Scotland with the National Secular Society, and had been taken aback when her opponent claimed that Roman Catholic primary schools were controlled by the Catholic Church. She emphasised that this represented an outdated view and she obviously had not heard of the Curriculum for Excellence in Scotland - it was not about Catholic versus state schools.

Ms Spencer underlined the importance of equality, diversity and inclusion and noted that lots of pupils of other faiths attended Catholic schools - they were very inclusive with the split almost 50/50 between Catholic and non-Catholic pupils. She added that she also represented the Travelling community, where many children had experienced bullying in state schools. Ms Spencer emphasised that they were not against anyone - they were inclusive and all they were asking for was a safe space.

Ms Spencer concluded that when people had faith it gave them hope and that she was here out of love for the children she taught at Sunday School and for her own daughter, and she hoped that the Councillors found it in their own hearts to make her dreams become a reality.

The Council asked questions of Ms Spencer and thanked her for her deputation.

(C)      The Council next received a deputation from JJ Welsh, Chair of the Parent Council of St Joseph’s RC Primary School, also in relation to agenda item 7.2.

Mr Welsh reiterated the points that he had made at the Education and Children’s Services Committee with regard to the feasibility study and how it had been put together - the layout was poor, it was not user friendly and it was very misleading. He noted that it was important to get the facts correct, and he was pleased to see that the report highlighted the mistakes and the errors that were made. He felt that if there had been better engagement with the community in general and in the three denominational schools, the wording of the feasibility study could have been changed to alleviate a lot of the concerns, and he believed there was a lesson to be learned from that by the schools and by the Council.  

Mr Welsh underlined the importance of free choice - St Joseph’s had a high percentage of non-Roman Catholic pupils. He noted many people from different places had chosen to put their children to a faith-based school, no matter their own religion, because they believed in the interests of their child and what they felt they would get from the school. He added that it was important to highlight that the catchment area for the denominational schools was west of Peterculter and south of Portlethen, which meant it extended into Aberdeenshire, but Aberdeenshire did not have any Roman Catholic primary schools.  Therefore, there were parents who drove from Stonehaven each day to take their children to school as they were outwith the area. Mr Welsh added that this highlighted the importance of denominational schools and for people to have a choice and for it to be available for them. Mr Welsh also drew comparisons with Dundee and Perth; although Perth had a much smaller population than Aberdeen, it had two Catholic primary schools and one Catholic secondary school, with a new school benefitting from a combined layout and joint campus.

Mr Welsh emphasised that St Joseph’s was a fantastic school and quoted from a recent HMIe report, however it was at bursting point and parents were very anxious at the prospect of mergers or closures. He welcomed that the school was part of the Victorian Schools review - the gym hall was extremely outdated, and he hoped the Council would honour its promise to St Joseph’s from 2015 with regarding to spending.

Mr Welsh referred to the amendment which had been successful at the Education and Children’s Services Committee in September and highlighted the proposal to establish a working group to look at data and hold proper discussions rather than relying on out of date figures. With regard to politics, he felt there was democratic right to uphold the result of the original vote and that he could understand the right to veto if the outcome put pressure on budgets, however this was not the case and he felt it had been done purely for political reasons. On that basis, he had looked into the duties of a Councillor and quoted the principles and duties from the Councillor’s Code of Conduct. Mr Welsh underlined that party politics should never have been put in front of the interests of democracy - the people of Aberdeen had elected them to represent their views and interests, not the interests of their political parties.

Mr Welsh implored Councillors to invest in the children as they are the future. He underlined that the proposal contained within the amendment would not cost the Council a penny and did not force the Council to make any decisions at this stage. He concluded by calling on Councillors to vote openly and without party politics in mind.

The Council asked questions of Mr Welsh and thanked him for his deputation.

(D)      Lastly, the Council received a deputation from Tony Steppie, Chair of Holy Family RC School Parent Council, also in relation to agenda item 7.2.

Mr Steppie stated that he wanted to take the opportunity to highlight how brilliant Holy Family RC School was - part of the reason why it was so brilliant was that they had pupils from every faith, it did not matter who you were or where you came from, it was one community. He emphasised that he was a person of faith, and that he had attended Holy Family, as had his older children, his grandchildren and his younger children - it was such a great school and meant a great deal to him and his family.

Mr Steppie advised that since he had become Chair of the Parent Council the school estate and consultation had come to the fore. He was not reassured that it was only a consultation; the Council was clearly looking at Catholic schools which caused concern. He reminded members that he had made a deputation at the Education and Children’s Services Committee and that the Administration had been defeated, with the amendment having been successful which was perfectly reasonable. He was shocked to discover that the matter had been referred to Full Council and could be overturned. He reminded Councillors that they were there to represent the public, not to ignore them, and that there were 50,000 people of faith in the city who would potentially be ignored if the decision was overturned. He added that the creation of a working group to look at Catholic education would cost nothing, therefore there was nothing to lose.

Mr Steppie underlined that Aberdeen was the best city in Scotland - faith was irrelevant in Aberdeen and it did not have the scourge of sectarianism that other cities experienced, however the Council seemed to be making faith a big deal which he could not understand. He explained that he was struggling explain the situation to families he had dealings with, and these were families from all over the world. He noted that GB Energy was due to establish its headquarters in Aberdeen and many new people and their families could be moving to the city as a result, however this situation meant there was now a question mark hanging over faith based schools in the city which could put people off moving to the city.

Mr Steppie questioned if this was democracy and that there should be a free vote on the issue, Councillors should not be voting along party lines. He cautioned that if the Council voted to overturn the original decision, they were not just sending out the wrong message to the people of Aberdeen but to people all over the world.

The Council asked questions of Mr Steppie and thanked him for his deputation.